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Christopher Miller - PK Appeal

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Today, 1st of December of 2019, Cipher was running an event called Operation Sigil Hunt, up until the point of standing and holding near a hole, everything was going normal. However, while we were told to hold, I fired off exactly two shots from my supressed MK3 up into a wall well above any NPCs near me. Inmediatly, an admin came to me and PM'd me to do a base roll for every shot. I tried to excuse myself from it, but I regardless did. I rolled 94 and 12 respectevely. Soon enough, an event was done of my character apparantly perfectly landing a shot on a civilian, this let way for the Drop Lead in charge to inmediatly come and Article Eleven my character.

While it is clear it is an IC consequence, this was done rather hastily, with the Sergeant and the player behind it not hesitating anything. It is clear it was a punishment for the actions done by my character, resulting in their death for incompetence. One will most likely argue that the Article Eleven can't be appealed due that if someone does it, they will be consequently dealt with a court martial if it was in correct. However, I am appealing the events that justify the Drop Lead's Article Eleven, that being my character landing a perfect headshot on a NPC while I was clearly aiming away at a wall, and low rolls dictating that this bullet would magically magnetize itself towards an organic's head. I find this rather strange.

I am keenly aware of the consequences done by my actions, and know of my recent history. However I would like to say here, as I have also done in the Survey's Feedback portion, that the punishment was handed off inmediatly without regard of the player's actual actions and intentions, followed by a PM of just "roll base". I would like to contest what happened.

 

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Right, I'll be taking this from here. First off, I'd like this:

5 minutes ago, Deck said:

I fired off exactly two shots from my supressed MK3 up into a wall well above any NPCs near me. Inmediatly, an admin came to me and PM'd me to do a base roll for every shot. I tried to excuse myself from it, but I regardless did. I rolled 94 and 12 respectevely. Soon enough, an event was done of my character apparantly perfectly landing a shot on a civilian,

explained by the people running this event. That being @Cipher and @Shazzy if I am not mistaken. Go ahead and explain the reasoning for the rolls and what it looked like on your side of things. Thank you.

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Given I was elsewhere at the time, I defered to @Shazzy Judgement who told me that Miller was shooting into the walls randomly, so I gave Shazzy the go ahead to deal with it IC as he had done it repeatedly.

 

Shazzy had made him roll twice, his first being an 93, 

The second being 12

I believe it was the 12 that got the Civie shot because of it.

I wasn't there in person I just gave Shazzy the go ahead.

The civie died and then lead @Kirkuma to perform an A-11 for shooting a Civilian in the field.

That I authorised Kira to perform as the Mission runner and the proceeding admin.

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The mentality behind this situation was simple enough. We're on a hold waiting for Cipher to do his thing and set up the continuing engagement inside. Now throughout the drop, multiple people, yes you're not alone in this. Found it hilarious to shoot and panic the NPCs so that "Calling police" appeared above thier head. And proceeded to meme about it in ooc. 

When it came to that incident. I asked you to take a base roll and the reply you gave me was "I just wanted to panic them." or some such along those lines. Now, upon conferring with Cipher as it was his event he allowed me deal with that from an Ic point of view. I asked yourself to take two base rolls.  As stated you rolled high then low. For the high roll. You did indeed panic the civilians in the area, which was seemingly your intent. And the low roll you hit a civilian. 

The fact the shots were suppressed stopped the hostiles from being alerted inside the building. The over arching point is that actions have consequences. The environment reacts to the actions undertaken in it. Now, had you rolled high twice. You wouldn't of hit anything. Few shots and civilians scatter. Had you rolled low twice would of been worse. 

The situation wasn't enforced as it could of been a simple case of you passing both rolls. I did an event and people reacted as they saw fit. 

In the case of the Article 11. Its pretty much an expected response for someone committing a war crime. Now the Article 11 itself was authorised by cipher and the drop lead undertook it as the incident happened infront of quite a few people. Debating that is a different debacle altogether. 

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I expected this response. It's very by the book. However, you say that it is consequence for my actions that were taken IC, you deliberately mistook my intentions and actions and made me roll. Even if it was a low roll, I was deliberately aiming well above any NPCs or civilians. To hit the wall. I would find it highly unreasonable that a base roll dictates that I suddenly headshot a civilian. This reminds me of the time in another server I aimed at a man's legs, I rolled 20 and suddenly my bullet did a completely 90º degree turn and hit a man in the head. These woudn't be an issue were it not that it enabled an instant response from the Drop Lead to come and A-11 my character without much of anything else. It is the standard response; spot unwanted player, find a way to incriminate unwanted player, use any opportunity to dispose of unwanted player's character. There of course may be no proof to this, but it is still incredibly fishy, and even if there was no foul at play, it is still an unfair procedure from the Game Master. It is no mere consequence, it is no "let's attack head on instead of flanking, see what happens", it is very much clear a harsh punishment, perhaps even affected and biased by past actions. It may aswell be delibaretely misinterprating OOC to hand out an IC punishment to hide it from an OOC issue, or use the classic 'It's IC issue'.

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Right, Drop Lead's perspective of this. 

As per the new idea from Optic, Drop leads generally now sit in VC with the Event Runner to make sure its fun for everyone rather than play to win. So not only was I five paces behind you to your 5 o'clock position, and saw the roles, I was also in VC with the Event Runner and those supporting him. Shazzy informed Cipher that you were shooting around the civillians, which you were doing from the get-go really, to see their reactions. Shazzy then asked Cipher if he should have you roll, and it was decided you did.

Accordingly you rolled and shot the civilian, which I then dealt with in character, as you violated ROE and you shot a civilian who was unarmed and not a direct threat to your life. I announced my intention to do so to the staff running the event and my Two-I-Cee, Dina, who was also in the channel, and then shot you with my Mark 4 carbine.

Overall, the theme of this is that actions are IC when it comes to things like that when you do it repeatedly. You did it a few times at the start and no one was massively concerned as it was one of those 'Oh, cool! New AI shit!' moments. However as you persisted, it thus became an IC manner that a Federal Mobile Infantry Medic was shooting rounds about the civilians for no reason, culminating in you hitting a civilian and resulting in immediate A-11.

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To further my IC perspective, there was not exactly a way to handle the man and keep him secure for a courts proceedings at a later date. We were performing door to door sweeps for a HVT in a high risk environment. We already had several men down being treated, and I had no manpower to guard him in addition to the wounded without compromising teams further. 

On the OOC side, I ignored him firing a few shots before, predominantly while we were in an RP pause waiting for other stuff. However ROE had been covered in the briefing, and again before we landed. ROE from both times referred to civilians only to be engaged *if they presented a clear and present danger to the troopers life* which in this instance they did not. 

Effectively as a result, due to the circumstances of having multiple men down, and down to myself, a single PFC, Dina and the marauders being the only assault team left to clear 4+ buildings, with everyone else either wounded, helping the wounded or covering the wounded, I could not spare any men to cover a detained trooper.

Let alone the fact we were in a hostile city environment suffering RPG fire, small arms, ambushes and sniper fire while on a time sensitive mission to secure a HVT before he escaped.

Edited by maxrevolver1

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Just a nice reminder, people. Don't comment on these complaints unless you're involved. Isn't rocket science.

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I am keenly aware of IC being IC, and consequences that bring forth. However, I am not discussing that, I am not talking about that and I'd appreciate it if you could counter-argue my own arguements behind the OOC decision of this. The admin did not issue me a warning, did not tell me to stop before it gets taken In-Character, the admin came forward, told me to roll, I did, and the admin then proceeded to blow my actions out of proportion based on a low roll. That is, I aimed and shot at a wall, and my roll suddenly dictated that it is In-Character, and that the bullet would suddenly bend an un-natural angle to hit a civilian in the head. This of course, enabling the NCO in charge to Article Eleven the character. You may see that this is all In-Character, but it blowing things out of proportion and using an opportunity to kill a character based on something that would be impossible to happen. This would be no different than characters getting NJP'd to exaggerate an injury done by the NCO to then blame the NCO for killing/seriously injuring a Trooper for a small NJP. It is no mere IC consequence to actions done by me and my character, but rather an action taken into in-character without warning, warped to a degree to enable a harsh punishment. No prior warning, no prior messaging, no communicatio, no escalation. My actions were not malicious.

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Right, I've got a pretty solid idea on these circumstances.

@Deck Your quite open pissing about and memeing on the event (shooting near NPCs to panic them for a laugh) is my main concern for this.

As it is very clear that there is a difference in OOC and IC intents. It's safe to say ICly no shots were fired into walls to startle any NPCs or 'people' in character. For this, I will be voiding the death of your character. I respect the intents of the admins to punish you for being blatantly minge-like on their events. However, I think it is far more just that you be banned for two weeks. Your ban will end on December 16th. Coming onto the server anytime before that will result in an extension, perhaps even the ban becoming permanent.

I hope you understand, and you are free to try and appeal your ban in a separate thread. 

 

 

This thread is now going to be locked.

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